Tech Haven Network

Posted: **Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:57 pm**

Little Sister told me something bizarre and was wondering if anyone had an opinion on it.

Currently Milla has 250 CST 99\114 INT, 99\103 Dex.

She's having issues building anything with slots. Everything is capped but I've gotten no more than 1 slot since starting back up.

Little Sister says I'm likely "OVERSKILLED" and need to LOM back down to about 220-230 CST to hit the "CST Sweet Spot"

I'm thinking I just need to finish capping and get that CST score a touch higher.

Whadda you guys think? Any numbers to suggest the correct course of action?

Posted: **Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:34 am**

I've never heard about a Construction sweet spot. You may have just run into a whole bunch of bad luck. It seems to happen that way sometimes.

I might be wrong though.

Posted: **Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:30 pm**

I want to give u an example Havoc/Milla

CST 249 H Heals (TL 85) u should get 1 x 4 - 5 slot every 50 spells.

The rest should be 0, 1, 2 and 3 slotters

I have done many of these series and that is always my end result

I also think you are overcap

BTW to cst 249 Holy Heals u should also make a nice profit
I will be happy to offer my barter for u, should u want to try it

Posted: **Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:40 pm**

This has been discussed at length over the years,with several opinions and supporting data flying around, but i will point you to an official answer as to slots a while back,

*** SPOILERS ***

Besides slotenhancers, which guarantee 1 to 3 slots, the only way to influence your chance to get slots is to get a construction skill as high as possible.

There are 2 variables in the formula that determines the amount of slots: the quality of the built item and a random number (0-199). Although quality of constructed items has a cap, the quality used by the formula is the theoretical quality, so having just enough CST to reach the build cap for the desired item is far from being optimal. In fact, if the quality is below a certain level, it is not possible to get 5 or even 4 slots. This quality is based on the TL of the constructed item DEX, INT and your CST skill.

So having a high build quality opens up the possibilities to get up to 5 slots. To get the slots, a random number is rolled. If that random number is above a certain number (derived from fixed factors and also the quality), you get 0 slots. For 1 slots, the random number has to be lower than the calculated number above. For 2 slots, it has to be below another number that's lower than that required for 1 slot. Same thing for 3, 4, 5 slots, the random number the game rolls has to be lower and lower. That's why builds with low quality can never get 5 slots, the required number would have to be negative (which it can't be).

As the quality factors into the formula determining the breakpoints for x slots, a high quality means a bigger range of random numbers will be able to get you slots. In other words, it increases your chances to get slots.

Rare weapons are a special case though. In addition to the formula described above, there is another roll for either 0, 1 or 2 additional slots (33.33% chance to get either). That's why rare weapons generally have more slots than non-rares.

As the quality is theoretical then the fact you "cap" all non rares is not a real cap in the sense of the formula used to calculate slots.

There are those who believe there is a sweet spot like Hacking, over a certain point value it appears to get harder to hack, the same may be true for CST but as i said the only official response i have ever seen is that above which lends no supporting information to a "Sweet Spot"

Good Luck Runner

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:12 am**

The slot chance % is exactly te same for any level construct you may have, I have tested it a thousand times at dozens of different construct levels. I would suggest having just enough construct to cap the stats of the object you are building, then hope for a lucky break (GL with that lol) It's kinda sad KK never actually implemented an actual system for this, but not at all surprising.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:57 am**

Are you sure, because it seems like that post that Logan quoted details a fairly elaborate system.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:31 pm**

flib wrote:Are you sure, because it seems like that post that Logan quoted details a fairly elaborate system.

That is the thing that used to infuriate me the most, they say it's implemented that way, yet you never see any kind of substancial results from it. I've done complete and comprehensive tests to try and figure out why it doesnt seem to work properly and every time I get the same results within 1-3% If you don't believe me try it for yourself, I must warn you though, it's a sad realization when you've built the thousanth holy heal only to come up with the same result.

Posted: **Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:04 pm**

Build 500 holy heals at the minimum const skill required to cap stats then build 500 at the max const skill and see how the % adds up.

I got this when i did it roughly within 1-3%
0 slot - 52%
1 slot - 31%
2 slot - 12%
3 slot - 3%
4 slot - 1%
5 slot - <1%

I also tried this on tl3 heals building batches off 200 at 8 different const levels starting from the min req to cap stats and going to the max const skill you could get with ops and buffs. My results were almost exactly the same (within 4%) for each const skill.

I also did this with tl 98 devs from the faction db building 4 batches of 100 at various const skill levels all with the same results within 4%.

According to that formula I should have statistically had higher slot % the more const skill I had, but all my tests proved otherwise. So I can only conclude that either the formula is wrong, or the formula is broken and simply doesnt work, like countless other things in that game.

That is only my opinion on the matter though, but I have not seen any other evidence to contradict it.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:15 am**

Faid wrote:Build 500 holy heals at the minimum const skill required to cap stats then build 500 at the max const skill and see how the % adds up.

I got this when i did it roughly within 1-3%
0 slot - 52%
1 slot - 31%
2 slot - 12%
3 slot - 3%
4 slot - 1%
5 slot - <1%

I also tried this on tl3 heals building batches off 200 at 8 different const levels starting from the min req to cap stats and going to the max const skill you could get with ops and buffs. My results were almost exactly the same (within 4%) for each const skill.

I also did this with tl 98 devs from the faction db building 4 batches of 100 at various const skill levels all with the same results within 4%.

According to that formula I should have statistically had higher slot % the more const skill I had, but all my tests proved otherwise. So I can only conclude that either the formula is wrong, or the formula is broken and simply doesnt work, like countless other things in that game.

That is only my opinion on the matter though, but I have not seen any other evidence to contradict it.

I have seen your study on NCforums amongst others, i would never have the time to do such an in depth run, but always take an interest in CST info

(Good job someone has the time! nice Faid)

I can tell you from my time in cst which has been probably 90% of my online time since i started NC i have seen no incredible difference in slots due to excessive skill.

When i hit around 225-235 ish Cst i was able and did build all arti rares, capped all non-rares and built several high slotted weapons including a five slot SH standing in P1 no buffs or OP.

once capped, using buffs, OP and drugs, i saw no marked improvement in rare builds or non-rare.

I have built a lot of non rare stuff for new players and the old shop, in which i would only sell 2 slotted items or more.

and I did however notice that some weapons seem measurably more difficult to obtain slots in, whatever my skill has been. Even now when i do a run on noob weapons i know which ones i can build around 10 to get a couple of slotted weapons and those i will end up building 50 of and probably "Yo" the lot and go back for more cubes!!

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:50 pm**

I've built >600 tl3 heals throughout my short time as a constructor.
I had a theory that slottage was somehow related to population level or maybe the time of day. (ex. more likely to have higher sots earlier in the morning when no one is on)
I'm pretty sure I did a trial on that, but the results were inconclusive.

Posted: **Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:46 pm**

flib wrote:I've built >600 tl3 heals throughout my short time as a constructor.
I had a theory that slottage was somehow related to population level or maybe the time of day. (ex. more likely to have higher sots earlier in the morning when no one is on)
I'm pretty sure I did a trial on that, but the results were inconclusive.

Don't forget to stay seated whilst putting the items in the processor, then stand up walk around your chair 3 times, jump up and down twice, sit back down and hit the start button twice....shhhh

Posted: **Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:38 pm**

Thanks for the info folks.

As it turns out, a large piece of equiptment at the local headend went boom. It may be several weeks before it gets replaced....

But I look forward to continuing my little digital life in NC as soon as it's back up.

Gonna have to save up some credits and start building by the hundreds instead of dozens it looks like!

Again, thanks for the help.

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:03 am**

Dammit I miss Neocron. :wrong:

Anyone have a socks proxy I can borrow?

Posted: **Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:48 pm**

@ Logan

u forgot to tell him he also has to face SW when he hits the start button....

Posted: **Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:01 am**

Ressi wrote:@ Logan

u forgot to tell him he also has to face SW when he hits the start button....

Ssshhhhh....... got to keep some of the secrets, secret!

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